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tv   Washington Journal Romina Boccia and Seth Hanlon  CSPAN  January 5, 2019 7:04pm-8:01pm EST

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continues in congress, you can follow the story on the c-span networks would live coverage of the house on c-span and see the senate on c-span2. c-span's "washington journal," live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. coming up sunday morning, we look at the trump administration's foreign policy with the director of research as the foundation for defense of alongacy and ok henderson with paul steinhauser, political reporter for the conference monitor. we talk about potential candidates in the 2020 presidential election and then foreign affairs magazine gideon rose will discuss foreign affairs challenges facing the u.s. in 2019. be sure to watch washington journal live at 7:00 eastern sunday morning. join the discussion. continues. host: we're back with romina bo
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ccia of the heritage foundation and seth hanlon of the center for american progress. we will continue this discussion on the economy and the government shutdown. yesterday's job figures, and unemployment get lower in this economy? guest: i don't know if unemployment can get lower, but labor force participation can get higher. can more people find work, go back to work? absolutely, the answer is yes. even though labor force participation is looking brighter at 63% now, it is at a relative low. i think as more people are coming back into the economy, the unemployment rate might not budge, but we will see more people finding jobs. host: were these positive jobs numbers an indicator of
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long-term strength or just a blip? guest: i don't think it is just a blip. it is a positive jobs report. there is continued strength in the economy. i agree that we could do better. there are workers that have been out of the workforce a long time that we are hoping to draw back. the unemployment rate ticked up partly for that reason because people are coming back to the workforce and actively looking for work. i hope the strength continues. talk about,we will their deadly storm clouds on the horizon. host: you hit my next point. are the fears of a recession in late 2019 and 2020, now that we see positive numbers from the job market, are those realistic? could predict the next recession, i would not be sitting here today.
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i would be in a house in the bahamas. the economy is showing strength. there are policies economists and this administration could be working on to make things stronger on the trade side. it has been going so great for so long, how long can this go on? there is no particular reason a boom needs to be followed by bust unless you are looking at likerlying problems bubble driven by federal reserve policy. when the federal government has manipulated the economy, that is where i see problems. predict it, but what signs are you looking for to be able to tell there is a recession on the horizon? guest: obviously, there is a ton of volatility in the stock
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market. that is not a great predictor of recessions one way or the other. when you look at other indicators about the real economy. what i'm looking at is what we that are in washington entirely self-inflicted wounds with this government shutdown, now in its second week. the effects are differently small so far compared to the size of the overall economy. they could really snowball in the weeks and months. the effects of the trade policy being affected in such an arbitrary, haphazard way. we are doing a lot in washington to cast storm clouds over the economy. host: that is the next topic, which is the shutdown. how does this affect the economy? will it have an effect on the economy? we know it affects the government employees who are not
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receiving paychecks. will it have an effect on the economy overall? guest: so far, government employees are still receiving paychecks. the question is will they receive them on january 11? question of whether the shutdown will be resolved next week. one of the indicators we have is the last shutdown in 2013, which lasted 16 days. that was a shutdown that affected the entire federal government, nonessential services. this partial government slowdown is not so much a shutdown. it only affects about 25% of federal spending. that means fewer workers and fewer government contractors that are impacted. if they were to miss that next paycheck, family of them have an emergency reserve fund they can tap into until they will receive their likely backpay?
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for businesses in the last government shutdown, there were cash flow concerns if the business was not getting paid. how much cash did they have on the side? a morelooking at having partisan government, and the likelihood of these shutdowns becoming more frequent, it would be wise for government contractors and federal employees to build that emergency cushion if that is part of their job. host: what you think about the government shutdown and how it will affect the economy? guest: i think right now, romina is right. the effects are relatively small. the effects on the people directly impacted our large. it is starting now. today is the last day of the pay period that 800,000 federal workers are not going to be paid for as long as this government shutdown lasts. they should be expecting their paycheck in the next few days.
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they will not get it. yesterday,ident said he is willing to shut down the government for months or even years. i don't know how seriously we are supposed to take that. it could definitely continue. those families are seeing financial strain and uncertainty. it is not only the federal employees, but the contractors, the employees who are federal contractors, parking attendants, security guards, they are affected, too. they might never be made whole. the effect on the local community, people's families. continues, the effects are exponential. missing one paycheck, some people will definitely have reserves that can last them through one paycheck were to paychecks. the longer it goes, the more people you have that are really distressed.
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as we get into february, we start to see more effects to government programs that would really take a bite out of the economy. now applying for unemployment insurance. they are eligible for unemployment while they are not being paid. in the history of government shutdowns, federal employees have always been paid back. some credit unions and family members are offering assistance to those affected to tide them over because there is the high likelihood they will ultimately get paid. it is important to know that if you get the unemployment, most states require you to pay it back. if you want to include your voice in this conversation about the economy and government shutdown, we are going to open up regional lines this morning. if you live in the eastern or central time zones, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or
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pacific time zones, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. keep in mind, we are always available on social media, on twitter and facebook. the question for both of you, how long does it go before we see the federal government shutdown have a major effect on the economy? will it ever have a major effect? how long before we see those effects? weeks, andnext few certainly if we get into february, there will be major effects for a couple of regions. when we get into february, there will be major programs like nutrition assistance, the snack snap program will start to run out of money. assistance not get from the government.
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people expect tens of billions of dollars of tax refunds starting in february. those effects will happen if it continues. we don't know how long this will go for one reason because we have been erratic, volatile president who has shutdown the government and taking credit for it and bragged about it to secure funding for his portable. there was a deal in the senate that passed unanimously, but the president has shut down the government over his insistence on making american taxpayers pay for a portable. -- border wall. there is always been political bickering. there have been government shutdowns. we have never had this level of erratic leadership in washington. host: when will the government shutdown have an effect on the economy? guest: i don't think i have much
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more to add on what seth said. we need to think about what are the essential functions we need the government involved in. pandacam at the national zoo will be turned off. don't misunderstand me. i like pandas as much as anyone else. i think we need to understand whether the national zoo needs to be within the domain of the federal government operation. what are federal actions in nature? as we enter this partisan decade, i think it is important for us to think critically about what are proper federal functions? what should happen on the state and local level that you will not see such major effects when you have major political disagreements leading to a partial government slow down. the nonessential functions for the federal government, not for any government at all.
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those grants for transportation and in the environmental space should be handled on the state and local level where with private sector actors, and then we would not be in this problem right now with the shutdown. host: let's let john from maryland join the conversation. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to make sure that first of all the guests say the economy has already been hurt. hotels and businesses drop way down. the reality is this man is not ready to sign any deal. he just wants to play games. it doesn't work like this. we have seen our country going down the drain, and we let this man do whatever he wants. if we need money for a border wall, why can't he called the nfl owners and ask each one of them for $1 billion and be done with it instead of asking the american people to pay for it?
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it is ridiculous. it is a sad day in america. we are sick and tired that our government is shutdown. people come here for vacations. it is time to spend some money for the customers that want to spend money. we cannot do that anymore. i hear the guests say it is not want to hurt the economy. -- not going to hurt the economy. every day the government shutdown, we lose money. thank you for taking my call. host: do you want to address that? guest: i can address that. i think it is absolutely right that the businesses that are reliant on the federal government or federal government facilities, so there are plenty of businesses near national parks. there are plenty of restaurants near federal facilities. it is not just in d.c. 80% of federal workers work outside of the d.c. metro area. we are talking about fda
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offices, irs and tax processing facilities, the department of justice and courts spread out all over the country. those people, their families, and the communities that they rely on are going to be affected. this is 100% due to president trump's stubborn and destructive insistence on a border wall, which is nothing more than a symbol, something he campaigned on, but has nothing to do with actual security. as we remember from the campaign, he promised over and over again mexico was going to pay for the wall. he has now shut down the government because he is insisting on congress appropriating taxpayer funding to pay for the wall. that: i just want to add in terms of timing, this is an opportune time for a government shutdown.
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we see seasonal fluctuations in the number of tourists coming to washington, d.c., or the national parks. we are in general, february. people are still -- january, february. people are still recovering from holiday spending. we cannot blame it all on the government shutdown. if this were happening in july, it would be a different matter. host: let's go to francis from michigan. caller: good morning. i think if they want to pay for the wall, roll back the tax cuts, and that will pay for the wall. back to rule it clear the clinton times so we could pay off the national debt, too. guest: i wish people were actually talking about how we are going to pay for the wall or any thing else in these government spending bills. almost $800had an $2300n deficit, more than
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for every american, which is actually larger than the tax cuts the average american family received. this is not about paying for the wall or whether it will be paid for, who will pay for it. this is about a fundamental disagreement between democrats and republicans about whether a wall is needed and what border security really means if you have listened to the rhetoric from some of the democrats, some think that we should have open borders, and i.c.e. should be abolished. that is a much larger disagreement than the wall. host: seth. guest: i'm not sure it is a disagreement between republicans and democrats. we had a bill that passed in the senate unanimously to keep the government open. there was a bill struck on border security money. we have had overwhelming
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bipartisan support in the senate. it came down to president trump at the last minute saying i want money for my border wall. i agree, it is not about the money, really. $5 billion. it is about whether we are to do something that is so wasteful with taxpayer money. it is not just the money, it is seizing federal land to build the wall and constructing something that is a symbolism of xenophobia and racism. president's on chief of staff has called is a childish move. this has nothing to do with actual border security. to be perfectly blunt, this is about president trump's ego and about being able to claim that he delivered something he promised repeatedly during the campaign, although he did promise mexico would pay for it. guest: border security is an
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essential function of the federal government, unlike so many of these other things in these spending bills, like the community development block grant. we build a teapot museum. we should be discussing how we pay for something that is essential to the federal government. paul from new to york. na,ler: good morning romi seth, and the person guiding the discussion. bush to what is going on with this president, it is like a cult. people are taking terrible advantage as their position as power ellites over the working people. at the pace that is happening with this so-called wall that
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doesn't need to be built, that is a waste of taxpayer money, your generation at the rate of what is happening will not have social security, medicare. you better look and have a conscience and speak truth to ina, you speakrom beautiful talking points, have a good heart, but for someone of your education and background, you get the world by the kite strings, and so does seth, your generation at the rate of what is happening is going to suffer so bad. het is happening with trump, is going to find when the mue ller report comes out, his daughter, his sons are going to willunless trump says i
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resign. this is a her in this abusive abuse of horrendous power. there are not many people that will put him exactly in the place of checkmate because nobody seems to have the conscience of godliness to do the right thing. this government before clinton was run like a cult. this government from the vietnam war on, from the assassination ,f john f. kennedy, his brother martin luther king, do you think these assassinations happen by accident? guest: i am glad the caller brought up social security and medicare.
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these are big issues that irect theirould red focus toward and tackle. both medicare and social security combined have about $50 trillion in unfunded obligations. that money doesn't come out of nowhere. it is not just about preserving benefits, but finding a sustainable way of paying for those benefits, which is being .one primarily by borrowing that will come due at some point , affecting younger generations. i appreciate the caller saying such nice things about my background, but it is important to not make assumptions about people. i understand the value of those benefits that people truly need. my mother is disabled. we grew up on welfare. these benefits need to be sustainably financed and
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targeted towards individuals that truly need them so they don't pull people out of the labor force and hurt our economy and hurt those very people. the social security disability program has a dismal return to work rate. it gives people benefits for life even when they recover. it means they have lower income than they otherwise would have. we should work to reform those programs. we should see positive steps on social security disability in the president's budget. i look forward to president trump's budget in february and hope we can make real reform progress. guest: i certainly agree that this generation of leadership we have in power is not doing enough to think about the future. long-termat our fiscal challenges are one issue. we have even more urgent
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challenges, in my opinion, foremost among them dealing with climate change and investing in future generations of americans through early childhood education and nutrition and reducing childhood poverty so future generations have the tools to grow up and succeed. i certainly don't see this in demonstration dealing with those at all. in fact, they are going in the wrong direction on climate change. the number one priority and the biggest legislative achievement this administration has done is a wasteful tax cut skewed to the wealthy, corporations that borrowed $2 trillion to essentially give out tax cuts that are going to have long-term damage for americans. host: i want to steer this conversation back towards the economy.
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yesterday in atlanta, jerome powell talked about possible interest rate hikes 2019 and monetary policy. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> overall, the picture for the rest of the world remains consistent here in the u.s. and the rest of the world. good data is the story looking in the rearview mirror. financial markets have been sending signals of concern about downside risks, slowing global growth related to china, ongoing trade negotiations, about what's let's call a general policy uncertainty out of washington. you have this difference between strong data and tension with financial markets that are signaling concern. how should we think about the outlook, and how should we think about monetary policy going forward? signals,et conflicting
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policy is very much about risk management. i will offer a couple of thoughts on that. as always, there is no preset path for policy. particularly, with the muted inflation readings we have seen be patient aswill we watch to see how the economy of balls. -- evolves. we are always prepared to shift the sense of policy, significantly if needed. host: question for both of you, what do you think interest rates will do in 2019? what do you think fed chair powell's future is under the trump administration? guest: i will start with the latter. i think the president has act , orthe threats to fire looking into whether he can fire chairman powell.
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i think chairman powell said even if he was asked to resign, he would not resign. i think his job is safe. i certainly hope that. we don't want to see the fed chair, supposed to be independent, and i think it should stay that way. it in hisu heard remarks. there is good reason for the fed to reassess whether they should continue raising rates. inflation is muted. we have all these threats on the horizon. i think a lot of people thought auseded should have p their rate hiking already. they did not this past meeting, but they might in future meetings, which i. his comments. his comments. i think that is positive for the economy in 2019.
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guest: i think we need to be clear that the federal reserve doesn't actually control interest rates in the economy. their decision-making tends to lag behind what they see in the economy. to the extent that the economy is strong, we may see further interest rate increases. that is something the congressional budget office is projecting. 20%e interest costs rose by from 2017 to 2018. just the interest on our national debt is costing taxpayers over $1000 per person. roleederal reserve's should be primarily focused on stabilizing the money supply. when we have a fed chair that can make decisions however it pleases. that can create problems. some fed chairs have been more to anodative
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administration. we saw the quantitative easing program, which basically boosted asset prices in the market. ben bernanke said at the time the goal of the program was to will goalth, then they out and spend money and boost the economy. that fundamentally misunderstands what drives economic growth. it is driven by the men and women who go to work everyday, entrepreneurs who solved real world problems, rather than by fiscal stimulus that gets people to buy stuff. that should be the effect of a growing economy where people find more money in their pocket. that is not driving economic growth in the long run. host: what do you think is the future of german powell -- chairman powell under president trump? guest: i have no comment on that.
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he might not even know. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. these days, one in regards to security, the wall. i disagree with what you say in regards that the wall doesn't work. i served in the marine corps for six years. i used to live right by the border because i was a marine for six years. i see that they do work. it doesn'tsay that work. it does work. it stops. i used technology. technology does work, but there is a downside to that. alerts theifies and people trying to cross the border. by the time you get there, they are gone. in regards to you calling my president irresponsible, and he just has ego regarding the wall,
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is wrong. first of all, you have congress. countriesn to foreign to fund abortions. $53 billion. 1.0% oflion is not even the economy. i disagree with the caller from maryland and new york. romina, you're awesome. in regards to the economy, it is the thriving middle class that drives the economy. social security was never supposed to be touched. they already went and touched it. president trump is trying to say that. -- save it. i appreciate what you are trying to say. when president obama was present, he said on national tv,
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don't bring your children over here because we are going to send them back. wall,9, security border serving obama, not because president trump was present, nobody wants it. guest: i would respectfully disagree on the need for a border wall as a border security party. we are seeing experts in this field, including president , who's own chief of staff was homeland security secretary before that, calling it -- drugs coming into the country, certainly an issue everyone agrees with me to address. according to the dea, most of the drugs that come into the country come through ports of entry. doall is not going to anything with that.
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as to immigration patterns, most of the influx for desperate migrants coming to the u.s. are basically families with children that are coming with the intention of coming to a port of entry and declaring themselves and seeking protection within the u.s. recently don't have anything near the crisis on the border right now. anybodys not the way who is actually focused on securing the border or the problems caused by illegal drugs are focused on. guest: i would like to comment on the social security part. it is so important that we look at exactly how that program is financed. there is this misunderstanding that the federal government actually agreed to save money on behalf of the american people to provide for them in their
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retirement. that was never the intention. the program is run on a pay-as-you-go basis. since having shortfalls 2010. the payroll tax has not been sufficient to cover the size of benefits. while a trust fund was amassed, that money was immediately spent. it adds to our national debt. the better way of preserving benefits for those most vulnerable and keeping the promise made to american seniors is to focus benefits on those individuals that need the most with a basic benefit that keeps people out of poverty but otherwise allows people to save for their own needs weather in retirement or otherwise through simpler means that they own and control so that the federal government doesn't spend their money and leave nothing behind but more debt. universal savings accounts should be a party for the
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congress and president. we saw bills that would accomplish that. host: let's go to roy from missouri. good morning. caller: hello. i really appreciate your guests. i think they are very astute and interesting. host: go ahead. guest: thank you. caller: i would also like to say that president trump seems to have a very skewed vision of the world. he is repeating kremlin talking seems to blow everyone's mind. why would he say that the soviet union should have invaded andanistan of all places ?hat it was a terrorism problem
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all historians say it was because of the expansionism on behalf of the soviet union/ . he seems to be getting his talking points from the kremlin. i don't get it. i think this man is compromised. there is something wrong. someone needs to take care of that problem. let's go to dalton, calling from alaska. good morning. caller: good morning. first off, i am glad he is building a wall. even if they build it, the democrats are going to leave the doors open. it is not going to help. seth, your bias is just ruling out -- drooling out. everything these people have been saying, i believe the opposite.
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i love trump. he is our savior. this man built buildings in this country. he made his mark. obama did not have a lemonade stand. you have to be kidding me. host: do you want to respond? guest: i will respond to the prior color. curiositye caller's as to why the president is using these, talking points and where he is getting this information. the comment about the theanistan war was not first time where the president has been talking like he is a russian spokesman. i think it is extremely weird and curious. investigation continues going through this government shutdown because they funding.anent we finally have checks and balances now that the democrats
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have taken over the house of representatives. the house has done no meaningful oversight over the last two years and in fact only done things to obstruct the mueller investigation. that has changed a lot. you will finally see a house with subpoena power to call people up to get some answers for who is driving our country's policy in the white house. guest: if you are trying to understand why president trump is doing certain things, if you look at his actions since being elected, it is like he is going through a checklist of everything promised during the campaign. tax reform happened. deregulation happened. that is why we are continuing to see this strong economy and jobs report yesterday. that helps long-term economic growth. now he is fulfilling his promises in other areas. that is why we are having a government shutdown. president trump and his advisers
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realized they would have the most leverage while they still have republican congress. now we are in this government shutdown. we have a new congress. we are witnessing airpower battle between the democrats led by pelosi and the trump administration. we will all have to see how it plays out. areaade, that is another the president is living up to his promises and why he thinks he got elected. that is an area i have deep disagreements. ultimately, those tariffs that are being imposed hurt the american people. those are taxes on the american people and to some degree offset the tax cut they just received. we need to work together with our allies to lower trade barriers and tariffs across the globe to open up more markets for american businesses. that is what boosts growth, and we should not be focused on erecting barriers to trade.
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janice callingto from maryland. caller: good morning. i am a federal government employee. thankfully, my agency is not affected by the shutdown. thankfully, it is not. however, i watched the president's press conference yesterday, and three reporters asked him, what about the cabinetpay raise that officials, including the vice president, are getting, will be getting? meanwhile, the government is shut down, and many employees will not be getting paid. that is absolutely ludicrous. the president had an opportunity to put an executive order in where he would freeze those pay raises, and he did not do it. colawhile, he froze the
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that federal government employees would be receiving. that is ridiculous. he does not care about federal government employees. host: what you think about the optics of that they raise versus the slowdown and government shutdown? guest: they are not good. i am supportive of no government, no pay. legislators in congress should not be getting paid if they are not doing their job. there is a constitutional -- maybe that would bring people to the bargaining table. regardless, just like the american people only get paid when they do their jobs, i think our legislators should suffer the consequences of not doing their jobs. calleri think the
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raises an interesting for 2019.t c.o.l.a. it is effectively cutting the pay of federal workers unilaterally by the president because if their pay is frozen in the cost of living continues up, that is effectively a pay cut. that has harmful effects on the federal government's ability to track the talented workforce. i think most people don't work for the federal government for the big bucks. they work for the federal government because they believe in the mission, and they also want some sense of stability that should come with government work. these repeated insults of federal workers, cutting the pay raises, and shutting down the government erratically and suddenly will have long-term
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effects on the government. the trump administration's whole attitude toward the government, it was reported in the washington post last night that senior administration officials are saying they are only just now realizing what the effects of a government shutdown will be. they are only now starting to prepare for the major effects i was talking about with regards to nutrition assistance and tax refunds. that is completely shameful. they have no excuse for not being prepared for this contingency. the obama administration prepared for months with agencies doing contingency plans to be prepared for what would happen in the event of a government shutdown. the trump administration simply doesn't have the attitude that government is important or that government's actions or inactions can hurt the american people. i think it is shameful. host: let's go to dennis calling
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from indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. to start with, if we would go back to a constitutional government, since about 80% of our government is unconstitutional, we would shutdown these branches of government that were created at whim. as far as the wall is concerned, if these people don't want a wall, let's put two strands of marked wire about 50 yards apart and a landfill in between. i am sick of seeing obama on tv. guest: change the channel. don't change the channel. host: don't change the channel. [laughter] guest: i am not an expert on how to build the best border wall. border security is a function of the federal government. the caller has a point that so many of the functions we see partially shutdown are not essential functions of the federal government. the constitution does not provide for them.
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telling tois very see what those effects are, what grant programs are affected. should these grant programs be operated by the federal government to begin with? the heritage foundation every year, we put out our budget proposal for congress, the blueprint for balance. we identify over 100 programs that should be eliminated because they are not proper programs of the federal government. they are certainly nonessential. remains to be done to reduce the size and scope of government. we won't have as many partisan fights because the government will be focused on those issues that the government should concern itself with. guest: i think for decades, centuries, we have had a national economy and federal government that has adjusted to that over the years. it is important when we have a government shutdown, it is an
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opportunity to look at these functions the federal government is serving. to name a few of them, one of the sectors that is most affected by a government shutdown is agriculture. we have farm service centers all over the country that now cannot provide loans. they are a lender of last resort for farmers. they cannot provide loans or technical assistance. the same is true of small businesses. there are 30 million small businesses around the country. fda offices are shutdown. the federal civil court system is shut down. disputes cannot be litigated. the national parks, we have kept them open without staff. there is chaos, literally garbage piling up in the federal parks. it is unsafe. whether we agree or disagree whether these are proper government functions or not, i would certainly think that they
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to shut them down suddenly and without any thearation only because of president's ego is bruised because he is not fulfilled his campaign promise to make mexico pay for his border wall is completely crazy. that is the situation we are in now. host: let's go to sam, calling from georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. thank god for c-span. every time i hear c-span, i am reinforced the positive things that come out of c-span. my question -- i thank you for having both panelists on. my question is to ms. romina, because they champion themselves, the heritage foundation, they champion themselves as the leaders of security, border security and whatnot. she tries to minimize what is
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the shutdown part of it by ras andpanda came janitorial services and whatnot, but what she is not telling us is the tsa offices in every airport across the nation are also subject to the shutdown. we are vulnerable to the shutdown across the nation. that compromises our security across the nation. hanlon for saying what he said about mr. trump when he made the point that trump said he would make mexico pay for it. i am going to shut my phone down and want to hear how ms. romina is going to rationalize how the tsa office being a vital part of the shutdown not getting paid is going to compromise our airport security across the nation and
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make delays in every airport, cancellations in every airport. thank you very much for taking my call. caller: -- guest: i was just at the airport. tsa is still working. they are considered essential employees. they have to work. that is still going on. as is the case with most government shutdowns, employees payl likely receive their retroactively. i think we should reconsider whether tsa needs to be managed by the federal government. i think there is a serious case to be made that tsa should be privatized. if it were privatized, or at least the functions they carry out at airports, we would not be having the problem right now. those workers would continue to be paid. host: one of the crazy things about this -- guest: one of the crazy things about the shutdown is it is not just tsa is the only security
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agency whose workers are going without pay during this shutdown. it is the whole department of homeland security. you have tsa, the coast guard, even border patrol and the department of justice agencies like the fbi and the drug enforcement agency, all of these federal personnel who support the security of the american people every day. they are now forced to stay on the job. deemedis right, they are to be essential employees. they are forced to stay on the job without pay. that is an untenable situation as this goes further and further. the tsa is already reporting that employees are starting to call in sick. who can blame them? i think one missed paycheck is one thing, but when you get into two missed paychecks, three
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missed paychecks, you start to see missed mortgage payments. even if they ultimately, based on past shutdowns, federal workers have received back pay, but there is no guarantee of that. in the meantime, they could be missing payments, missing obligations, drawing down savings, drawing down retirement accounts. they are being harmed. the longer this goes on, there is no doubt some affect on the actual security of the american people. one of the most ironic things is the secret service itself, the agents who are protecting president trump right now, are being forced to work and protect president trump and his family without receiving a paycheck. guest: i think workers can have reasonable reassurance that they receive retroactive pay because a bipartisan bill was just introduced in the last congress and reproduced in this congress. that should not be a question. host: i want to read this quote
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from the tsa union in the washington post. 50 to 100 people are calling out at any particular airport. they are not coming to work because they do not have the money to get to work. they are not just taking off. they are not saying we are going to shut things down. they are the lowest paid employees in the federal government. they do not have the money to get to work. we are seeing some effects from tsa at some airports around the country. shutdowns, the federal workers have gone back pay and the government has reopened. who can look at this government and this president in the last two years and say that anything is certain? this president is so erratic, who knows? i think it is likely that they will probably receive back pay, but who knows when?
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there are thousands of workers and small businesses who serve as independent contractors working for federal government who are not direct federal employees who have not been made whole in past shutdowns. there have been bills this time, but that has not happened in the past. those people probably will not be made whole. go to jack calling from scottsdale, arizona. can you get a quick question in? caller: it is a comment and a question. on, first, let's talk about money. his little fellowship there. mr. trump has not taken a salary at all. what about hillary clinton and obama into their entire staff for eight years, pensions? hillary, bill, obama, all their staff, let's not forget the $10
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trillion required in his presidency that took all the presidents in our history to do that. let's not forget wisconsin, there was a $77 billion project. ,et's not forget about iran $1.5 billion in cash. that is the money. let's talk about securities in our country. nlon needs to not forget about the sheriff that was killed the week ago by illegal immigrants. in arizona, we had a number of people killed by illegal immigrants deported. thousands of americans. maybe he needs to know somebody in his family were personally that might be murdered by an illegal immigrant, then maybe it will hit home to him so that his money thing and wall. it is not just the wall. this is about america, ok? guest: it has been proven that
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immigrants, including undocumented immigrants commit crimes in the u.s. at lower rates than other people. there is simply no reason to blame immigrants or undocumented immigrants for crime in the united states, and by the way crime in the u.s. has continued to decline since the 1990's, but all through present obama's tenure. guest: let's talk about the money and one of the bills in the house that would have provided border funding also would have provided additional emergency disaster assistance. none of it would have gone to fema. it was not targeted to actual disaster assistance. the democrats want to introduce an additional $12 billion in emergency funding so they can spend even more than they were already authorized to spend.
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this border security discussion is really not about the money. both democrats and republicans are very willing to spend that much and much more on the backs of the american taxpayers. this is about border security and not at all about the money. host: let's go to bernie calling from new york. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. if the president is really serious about border security, i think he should take the suggestions from north korea. it makes all the sense in the world. 5 million landmines on the mexican border, and another 10 million landmines on the canadian border. how do you feel about that? host: landmines as border security, what do you all think? guest: that is an extreme proposal. [laughter] guest: probably not the best idea. guest: no. host: we would like to thank our
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boccia from the heritage foundation. always try to make sure i get your name right. and seth rufus, c-span's original documentary: the u.s. senate: .onflict and compromise after that, the ceremonial swearing-in in the senate. elected ayanna pressley of massachusetts outlines her priorities for congress. >> at have been asked several times today, will i agree to this version or that version of the senator's oklahoma amendment. no! [gavel bangs] >> thomas jefferson -- >> the framers believed. >> let's follow the constitution. ♪ >> sometimes it seems nothing is > sometimes it seems nothing is


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